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SUPPLEMENT TO THE HONGKONG DAILY PRESS.
out, that is, that which expresses the cause of there being no effectual means of communica- words at the end of that resolution he left out. the insecurity.
tion between the police in order to bring effec-Cries of they are.")
Mr. W. Ledes-We have had his resolution The CHAIRMAN-Will you put it on paper tual resistance, we finds body of about eighty men! Mr. FRANCIS advanced to the table and de-armed come to this colouy prepared to commit a before the meeting, secondod by a member of risive laughter, and. having a copy of the resolu-great crime. They did not seoin to come prepared the bar, who understood what he was saying, and
further. tion given to him, struck out from it the words to take life unnecessarily.Cries of “Oh, oh.”), I think we have no reason to go any
Mr. Maura-I would like to put a rider to which in the opinion, eto." He then said-The--They came prepared to protect their own lives. rouson why I ask, gentlemen, that the last three They came to take life doubtless if they were the amendment, if I have a right to do so.
Goutlemen, I am very The CHAIRMAN-A perfect right. lines of the resolution should be omitted is this. I attacked-Laughter.)
Mr. Marra-I propose that the amendment don't suppose there is any doubt in the mind of any much obliged to you for leading me a little gentleman present us to the state of insecurity in closer to the point, and that is this--We find proposed by the Government officials present at the colour No, uo")-property is in great some sixty or eighty desperadoes, armed. pre- this meeting, Mosers. Fraucis and Hayllar- Well (laughter and applause)-be not accepted. What danger and life is in great danger. About thatpared to fake life if they were attacked. there can be no doubt, but this resolution is a now this, gentlemen, was a very marked attack, I want to propose is that the resolution as made double-barrelied cue, and while affirming that in and I ask you, gentlemen, to consider whether, be put.-(Ilear, hear.)
The CHAIRMAN-Gentlemen, I want your ap- which we all conour it goes on to bring in at the when these men came here. they in the least end something else which ought to be dealt with degree considered whether, if caught, they were proval ou disapproval of this amendment. ThoseS as a separate question("No, no "--and about going to be whipped on the breech or on the in favour of the amendment will be good enough
back. Gentlemen, I don't think that is a thing to hold up their hands. Ach there may be a difference of opinion.
Mr. HAYLLAR (M.LC., Q.C.) received with that could enter into their consideration. hisses, discontinued on the call of the chair-("Time, time.") I have a few more words!
I put it these man intended to get man, said--Perhaps.gentlemon, as a man who took to say. part in a commission of some importance some off and that was the reason they came armed. years ago, I may be permitted to make one or They expected to get off, and therefore I don't two observations. (A VOICE- Speak ont.") think any undue leniency of this Government, I will speak ont as loud as I can, but perhaps my with regard to whipping, or hanging, or any voice is not so lond as it ought to be in the open thing else, conld inflnonce thom. They came
Gentlemen, in the years 1971 and 1874 I here armed to prevent being caught. had the honour of sitting on a commission with a
air.
!
Mr. FRANCIS-Will you pardon me for saying
wo hands were held up.
The CHAIRMAN-Now, I must put the resolu- tion, which is that during the last eighteen months, etc."
Carried with three dissentients.
Mr. No CHOY-The Chinese cannot hear what
is going on.
The CHAIRMAN-Why do they not come for- ward? We must go on with tho meoting.
Mr. No Cuor-I want the resolution to he put again.
The CHAIRMAN-I cannot put a resolution. which has been carried; we taust go on with the meeting.
Mr. No Cяor-It is not fair. The Chinese do not understand what is going on.
Me. Lowoock-We cannot help it. I wish I don't think your explanation has made theevary Chinnman understood what was being said, amendment clear-No, no.") My ament.
but we cannot speak Chinese. mont is substantially that the two questions should be separated.
The CHATUNAN-You gave me a resolution which has been sceoulei by Mr. Hayllar.
The CHATEMAN-outleman. I must pat the great number of other goutlemen of this colony amendment before the resolution, the amend who rande certain recommendations to the Go-ment being- vernment. Among other things var recommen. That during the past 18 months, life and property dations involved an increase of the police force of in this colony have been seriously jeopardizel and a at least 150 men. That resolution was practically feeling of insecurity, the result of recent events, has embolied by the Superintendent of Police in the been engendered. financial estimates of the year 1973. The finan- cial estimates asked the Legislative Council for a vote of 750 meu instead of 600 odd man which were then the whole forre. That, gentlemen, was not agreed to, and from the year 1870 up to the present time the police force has never been increased, although the whole of the duties, I should suppose, have been in- cressed one-third. We divided at that 6ms the city of Victoria into 200 heats. It is at present divided into 87, and I put it to you that, as was universally recommanded by a very harge commission of gentlemen, these 87 beats notwenly cugh for the polise of this colony to putrol at night. Not only that, but so much does the police force from time to time bocone reduced that it actually happens that very often some men have to patrol two boats, and on the night of this sad altack, which every que laments, in Wing Lok-street, I am in a posi-
The Chinamen then, at a signal from Mr. Ng Choy. moved off the ground; ohoering as they
went.
Mr. W. H. FORBUS-The second resolution. which I propose, is-
Mr. FRAVCIs Which has begu struck out. The CHAIRMAY-Allow me to call you to or.
That in the opinion of this meeting there is no ne. der. I think a more gross insult to me could!
cessity for any change in the laws and police regnia. hardly be made.--(Cries of "Tarn him out, turutions of the colony, but that the remedy for the exist him out.")--No, no; ist him remain.
Mr. FRANCIS will be neither put down intimidated. Whit Mr. Gibb read out just now as my amendment was the words I proposed to
leave standing.
awing
ing state of affairs is in a firm and unfettered admini norstration of the laws as they stand, especially those That fogging in public has been found to be the only really deterring punishment for the class of criminals frequenting the colony, and to its suspension and the suspension of other necessarily stern modes of treat- ment enforced during previous tovernments is attri. butable the daring boldness which has lately charac- terised crime in Hongkong-
The CHAIRMAN-What did I read out? Mr. FRANCE-You read out the fist words, which I left stanling.
Mr. HAYLLAR--Pray, Ist ma say that Mr.
were the amendment.
Mr. GRANVILLE SHARP-I have been re-
thankful that, owing to a favourable North- east wind which set in a few hours after my departure from Shanghai I am altogether unexpecte lly present at this second typhoon within the last week. I am able most. thoroughly and heartily to protest against this Mr. HAYLLAR-Mr. Gibb put to the meeting party character being thrown into this loyal the resolution I seconded, as I understood itmesting. Gentlemen, I don't know that there
tion to assert that Hongkong had for its protacibh road out the worlds which I muierstoodquested to second this resolution. I am very tion during the night five European policemen. ("Question, question.") There were three or
Mr. FRANCIS made an attempt to speak again, four others. One was taking charge of Mr. Hat- fam's papers that uight, another, who was sup. but was met with a cry of "You don't know posed to be guarding the town, was guarding what you are taking about.”
The CHAIRMAN-Am I to put the resolution the Government Offices. (A. Vorca.- Govern! ment House." One or two were on special to the meeting. duties, and actually that night there were bat five European policemen. Basiles that there
were
is any one in Hongkong who has had more to do
It
in the Central district only about (Hear, hear.)
3. FRANCIS-Well, if Mr. Hayllar is against with the intelligent Chinese merchants than 1 toirty-five Chinese and Sikhs. Of these a very small proportion were armed, and in supporting me in that way I mast simply The remain ler up to within this day last mouth, and I am able Mr. Francis's amendment I put it that a state of thosentence wasinaatible to the reporter), Yon most thoroughly to say that the resolution of things like that is suficient to attract put a resolution which it seemed to me contained which was first proposed and the resolution which criminals, and I put it that it has been really an twopropositions, one that a great state of insecurity is now before yon, have the entire and fall act, not of neglect, because no one thought at that existed in the colony, and the other that there concurrence of the most respetable and intelli- time the attack was going to take place, but that was a certain sanan for it. The amendment gent members of the Chinese community. the insecure state of the town was one of the proposed was to ent off the last part. I don't is quite right that in undertaking an inquiry main elements which led to the attack that night touch the state of the colony. I proposed to of this kin we should guard ourselves agaiust strike out the assertion that a certain person or selfish motires, and I think we may with truth (Question, question.")
course of action was responsible for that. I ap. say that our merchants in China are not hard and I believe that in no part of uuroasonable men. paal to the gentlemen preavut if it is fair to mix up the two things, one ou which we all agree this world can a body of gentlemen be found showing so large an amount of consideration and--
Mr. HAYLLAR-That is what Mr. Gibb has and kindness towards each other, and towards the weak, the poor, the sick, and the boreaved, as pat
Mr. FRANCIS-And the other on which there has been manifested for half a century past by may be some difference of opinion. I am in your the wealthy, and oftou times by the unfor hats entirely, but I want to show I clearly tanate, marchants in China. understand at least what I am doing.
The CHAIRMAN-Order, gentlemen. please. Mr. HAYLLAR-Now, gentlemen, Mr. Francis has moved au amendment to a rosolution as to nulus leniency Without in the least degres seconding Mr. Francis's remarks as to the right of gentlemen to bring resolutions down hers, which I think no public mesting could bo con- dacted without, I say this, that it is very diffienit to know exactly what nudns leniency is referred to. As to the use of the cat, all I know is that the only thing which has been substitute for the cat has been whipping on the breech. That I believe is a very severe punishment, which has ken carried out with grout severity in the gaoi.
The CHAIRMAN-I think if I put it here
We are surrounded
by a native population of one hundred to one, and it is only by a preservation of that supersti
it meets the case. Mr. Francis makes an tioas veueration for the prostige of the British amendment to the resolution, and Mr. Hayllar character by which we are enable to keep the seconds that, the wendment being "That during masses of the Chinese in check. The progress A Voice-For boys and girls. (Laughter.) the past eighteen mouths life an I property in this of education amongst them is greatly calculated M. HAYLLAR-I have no doubt the honour colony has been seriously jeopardised anda feeling to break down that prejudice and reverential able gentleman in his childhood has often ex-of lasecurity, the result of resent events, is been feeling with which they regard all things fo- perienced it. It is a very painful operation to
reign. They are becoming inore and more all concerned. Now, gentlenen, I am very much
familiar with us, and as a consequence in some obliged for the patience which has been extended
degree there is a growth of that contempt which to me while uttering very aupopular sentimente.
Ais proverbial. Bat our dauger is not from the natives by whom we are surroandol, but from the But I want to put this. There being forty or fifty [licemen to guard the centre of the town,
masses of the Kwangtung province, which has
engendered."
Mr. FRANCIS-May I be allowel to state my amendment in my own words.--(“No.”)
The CHAIRMAN-They are your words. gentleman has seconded your resolution.
Mr. FRANCIS--My amen luent is that
the
SUPPLEMENT TO THE HONGKONG DAILY PRESS.
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very
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A Voica-A great number. Mr. FRANCIS-A great number if you wish. Not one of these burglars has been caught. Is that the fault of the Governor ?
The CHAIRMAN-No ons said the Governor.
the numbers.
here.
tion.
I have been robbed three
Mr. RUTTONJEB-The next resolution has
heen truly described by Mr. Keswick to be own self, aud for everyone here present, the the most violent and the most demoralised of sentiment with which this meeting was opened the whole Chinese empire. It is quite right in by our excellent Chairman, that this is not a dealing with criminals that a due regard should mutinons meeting-it is an orderly, quiet, con- be paid to the reclamation of the criminal, stitutional meeting. We have every right to but I bohl that the first duty of a foreign minor speak here, and that what we say shall be passed Mr. FRANCIS--Another observation that might population placed in the midst of a major and by common acclamation, and then that having be made is that no burglar in the existing state enormously preponderating native population, is the concurrence of this meeting, it shall be laid of the low could be punished by flogging unless not the reformation of the Chinese criminal, but before our Governor, whose experience, and he was caught with weapons in his hand, and if the protection of life and property, which is amiability I may say-(A laugh.)Don't smile, you reflect, you will see that two or three clever the inherent right of every one of God's crea- I believe our Governor is an amiable man. and burglars might have committed all the burglaries turas. It is impossible that we should rightly I believe this relaxation of discipline has been which have been committed. I have been as great teach these vagabond visitors from Kwangtung in permitted from, and bas boon the outcome sufferer as any one. the same way as we deal with the criminal popu. of, the best motives and intentions. times in the house I am in now. lation of the British Empire, ninety-nine out of And I believe when he finds the unanimity with The CHAIRMAN-This has nothing to to with every hundred of whom have been brought up in which these resolutions are passed he will now it. our blessed Sunday schools and have within thêma give, as he has on former occasions given, every Mr. Keswick-The resolution says nothing sense of right and wrong. We have the highest consideration to the expression of the public about the numbers of the police force. It is the authority that the magistrate is to be a terror to sentiment. I have great pleasure in gesonding. evildoers and a praise to them that do well. the motion which has been proposed by Mr.egulations and the laws nothing to do with Which comes first? Is it the praise that Forbes.-Loud Cheers.)
Mr. FRANCIS-My Taggestion with reJON comes first? No, it is the terror. Te beareth The CHAIRMAN--Will any gentleman move
ence to that is that the laws want altering not the sword in vain," and our ragistrates an amendment, or does any gentleman wish to and the police force re-organising. As to the ought to be firm and ought to be encouraged make any remarks on the resolution P
alteration of the law, I simply want to point out At the first on occasion to use the sword.
Mr. T. I. BOWLER-As it is evident that at this, that the most important and valuable law introduction of that new
system of
dis- tempts have been aude to cause dissension, in force at home for dealing with criminals, the cipline in the Colony which was most nuwillingly move," Thet this meeting views with annoyance Habitual Criminals Act, has not been introduced forced upon us, and which was brought forward and displeasure the efforts which have been made in the time of the best Governor we ever had, I to bring about dissension between the Chinese A VOICE-Flogging is the law. walked down myself to the first infliction of and Europeans.”
Mr. FRANCIS-But there has not been oue public corporal punishment-not that I desired! The CHAIRMAN-You are not speaking to the case in which dogging might have been in to witness what is a cruel sight, but that I resolution, Mr. Bowler.
dicted during the last several sessions. There Mr. FRANCIS--I should like to speak on the have been no Boggings and desired by my presence to give a certain
no scutences amount of sauction and approval to that which subject of the resolution, Well, gentlemen, with of flogging during the last four or five months. might have been
misunderstood by those many of the assertions contained in that resolu-Flogging can have had nothing to do with the outside the colony and those at home-which tion I concur. I bave never been, I am not,increase of crime because not one of the criminals might be blamed as being too ornel.
in favour of the repression of corporal punish has been detected, for which the Folice Force is I saw the first flogging given, and I say that flogging ment. I believe that for many of the of responsible.(Hoar, hear.) bad a most salutary deterrent influence. Of the fences committed it is the only proper punish- The CHAIRMAN-You should move a resolu- uatives present this afternoon many have come ment. But you know very well that with here, and I think I may say with the concurrence the disapproval of the Colonial Surgeon, or any
Mr. FRANCIS-I am simply speaking to the of this meeting-have been brought here under other medical man, no Governor in this colony
resolution. a misconception. (Applause.) Let me say that dare carry it out in the face of public opinion
The resolution was then put and was carried, I hope it was not an intentional misconception. in England, and the whole fores of this colony no bands being held up against it. But I believe they have come here under a mis- combined could not carry that resolution into conception of the object and purpose of this effect. It is the humanitarian party in England meeting. This meeting is not an adverse one to who are in favour. In passing that resolution I been placed in my hands, and I regret it the Chinese community of this colony, but a do say a great change in the law and police are has been so only since I bave been at this Nevertheless, I will move it very meeting which, as I believe-indeed, I am sure necessary, and for the reasons already set out by meeting.
uld have had a month sep. when I was here, one of the speakers. This colony is not situated readily, and with very few remarks. Gentlemen, thearty approval. It is not the educated classes, the merchants, the honest traders, the
in the mist of a peaceful country; it is situated. most of you are aware that I have tires in Chiu as Mr. Sharp and others pointed out, with thou a number of years-thirty-two years, twenty" working coolies, the diligent shopkeepers, the sands and thousands of lawless characters within two of which I have spent in Hongkong, and I do enterprising Chinese builders of Hongkong-it is half-a-mile or a mile of our borders. Therefore, not remember during this long period such astate not against these we have cause of complainant. It police regulations such as we have, which are only of alarm and excitement with regard to the safety is against the strangers who come to Hongkong, suited for quiet times and in a quiet country are of life and property to have existed as is now who know nothing of our colony, who come to not suitable to this colony. The Police ought prevailing. And I don't think you attach the find an El Dorado of riches and a place of un- to do double duty; an arrangement ought to be blame to the police.-Hear, hear. The police. puuished crime. The two thousand Chinese who made to carry that out. There are police duties considering their number and duties, have done come here daily throughout the year. these are on the streets; there ought also to be quasi- their work remarkably well.Applause.) You the men with whom our quarrel is, and not those military duties on the roads. No man who has know the cause of this abnormal state of things. wen who have surrounded our circle to-day--thonght on this subject can be of opinion at this It is very easily traceable. There are not two (Applause.) On my way down from Shanghai moment that the Police Force is properly and I took up the Municipal Report, and what do I thoroughly organised, having in view the ney hind there on the subject of flogging? I find sities of the Colony, or that that is the faut. of that in the British Settlement of Shanghai, tho present Governor, who found it as it is. where the population is very limited, they have had no less than 730 floggings during the last year, and that of these 730 Bloggings 529 were of over 50 strokes and a large proportion of over 100 strokes--and you know what that punish- ment amounts to. Then I say these two thou sand who come here daily and who are daily witnesses in Canton, and elsewhere. of the cruel punishments of China--they come hero and find, as has been truly represented, a place of very relaxed discipline.(Hear, hear.) For it to be supposed, gentlemen, that any systol of imprisonment for these low classes of Chinese-hungry, poor, miserable, desporate man-cau ever take the place of corporal punishment is vain, vain, valu-Hear, hear.) I notice during our recent criminal sessions our Judges have been inflicting punishments at the are monthly of thirty years' imprisonment; and at what cost? For nere maintenauco alone, without the expensive buildings and remu- neration of officials, of $50,000 per annum. Do you come to China to toil and perspire for this Hour, hear.) No. sir, if this goes on we shall have to fill Stone.entter's Island Guol again ("No, no "-sud mild anothor costly stenctare elsewhere. In conclusiou, I do not believe that such men as Sir John Smale, such amiable and kind men as our present Acting Chief Justice and Paisne Judge, benevolent men do not believe they are in favour of the re- ceat relaxation of discipline; and if they are not Who should be? I think I can repeat, for my
opinions about it among the foreign community, and even the Chinese community, I think, wero of the same opinion until the hour of the mecting. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I think this agi ation is very properly brought on. With these few remarks I beg to propose this resolution, which is that
A Voren-Why did he not alter it ? Mr. FRANCIS-It is not the fault of the pre. sent Governor, who proposes alterations and who is dependent on the approval of the Homo This meeting views with great apprehension the Anthorities. If you want to blame anyone, it opinion of the Colonial Surgeon with regard to the ought to be the system of centralisation which effect of the use of cat-o-ring-tails on the backs of prevented Sir Richard MacDonnell, one of the vernor in respect thereto, and proposes that a com. criminals and the action of His Excellency the Go. strongest Governors we ever hal, from carrying mission of medical men he appointed to inquire intə out many of his measures. Hongkong is go the matter. verned not bere, not by the Governor on the spot, but by the fiat of the Secretary of State in London. Every one of you must know that not one single thing, not one single item of ex- penditure, eau be incurred nutil it is sent home. You must know that within the last six months scarcely anything could be attended to at home. I beliero no severe punishment such as public flogging would be approved in the face of public opinion at home.
A Voice-What about the mou-of-war's neu? Mr. FRANCIS- That is sanctioned by the Home Government for purposes of their own. If they like to sanction it out here they can.
Me. W. 8. YouNo-I bave great pleasure in seconding the resolution.
The CHAIRMAN Gentlemen, has any one any remarks to make in regard to this resolution, or any amendment to propose to it. It is a very simple one.
Mr. HaxBAR-The only thing I would say about that is that a commission has been ap pointed, and has been sitting for a long time. I don't know whether that would make any differ ence to the resolution.
A VOICE-The public are not supposed to know that.
Mr. Lowcock--The commission has finishod its sirtings and we have heard nothing about it. The resolution was then put and carried no- animously,
A VOICE- Let us have a Naval Surgeon. Mr. FRANCIS-Well, gentlemen, if you want anything like fair play in the discussion of t is you must admit the police force wants Mr. H. H. NELSON (Justice of the Peace and reorganising. There ought to be semi-military Vine-Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce-- duties on the borders of the colony and the Wa- Gentlemen, I have to propose the fourth resoin- ter Police must be strongly reinforced. Now, tion. To doing so I will say for yself, as se- gentlemen, what are the kind of offences that vorul gentlemen have said for themselves before have caused alarm during the last six months? A me, that it is not in any captious spirit 1 come certain number of burglaries--
here to propose the resolution. The remarks
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